Are we giving our MBA talent away?
Once an MBA was considered a ticket to a great career, now some see it as a ticket to a greater country.
Tuesday, October 18 2011 || Education || BY Lesley Springall
Photography: Paul Gorman/The Press
Who is the client of an MBA programme? The budding chief executives and entrepreneurs who fork out the best part of $30,000 to be drilled in accountancy, law and marketing 101? Or their potential employers?
The question caused a storm of debate at a recent function for Otago University MBA programme alumni. The result? Most former pupils resolutely dismissed former Otago MBA director David Bane’s assertion that an MBA programme’s customers could be anyone but them.
But the answer’s not that simple, says Ian Lafferty, Otago’s current MBA director. If New Zealand is to attract and retain our best talent, they need good jobs at the end of it. “And unless the business sector values the MBA qualification and what it brings the talent will go somewhere else as soon as it graduates.”
Retaining talent is key to New Zealand’s future, says Sir Paul Callaghan, founding director of the MacDiarmid Institute. Picking sectors is simply not getting us anywhere, the well known Wool to Weta author told the 150 or so participants at the Sustainable Future Institute’s StrategyNZ workshop. “Smart foods, cleantech are just things that sound good to politicians. But they are just complete and utter nonsense. Truth is what we’re good at is really weird stuff.”
Our top 10 technology companies produce $3.9 billion a year, making strange things that dominate niche markets. We need 100 companies doing the same thing, says Callaghan. To achieve that we need 100 talented people to create and foster those companies in New Zealand. The question is not about sectors but how we create “a place where talent wants to live”.
Wendy McGuinness, chief executive of the Sustainable Future Institute think tank and an Otago MBA graduate, says talent is key to the country’s future wellbeing. “It’s the ability to make connections, to be innovative and inventive.” It’s the country’s future thinkers; the ones who will keep New Zealand humming once we’ve finally got over our focus on milk powder.
So how does this tie into the country’s eight MBA programmes?
McGuinness says New Zealand’s MBA programmes, especially Otago’s - which attracts 75% of its intake from overseas - are a good way to attract talent into New Zealand. “The people who are attracted to an MBA here are already attracted to New Zealand. But more than that, people attracted to MBAs are committed to being educated, to being informed and to doing something with their life ... so they are naturally people who are interested in being the talent of the future.”
Otago has New Zealand’s only fulltime, campus-based MBA programme. It attracts about 35 applicants a month from overseas, with about 25 from India and most of the rest from China. Overseas places are limited as it’s important to maintain diversity to give New Zealand applicants a chance to meet and learn from international students about business practices overseas and vice versa, says Lafferty.
He's also a fan of using MBA programmes to attract and retain talent. All Otago MBA students get a business mentor who not only provide a sounding board through the course, but also introduce their student to the wonders of Dunedin and New Zealand, This might be as simple as participating in a family BBQ or attending a local rugby game.
The newly-introduced mentor programme is a hit with students, Lafferty says. So is the flexibility to do the business project part of the programme anywhere in New Zealand. This was changed to allow students to see more of the country and build wider business networks, with the hope of attracting them to stay, he says. “It’s not just about providing an MBA programme anymore; it’s about providing an experience ... an academic adventure.”
MBAs are also a good way to boost talent levels among our middle and senior management, where skills tend to rate poorly compared with overseas counterparts, says Lafferty. Somewhat ironically given our need to retain talent, a Ministry of Economic Development study last year found New Zealand managers were particularly poor on people management, “particularly when it comes to attracting and retaining talent and managing poor performers”.
Gerald Scanlan, another Otago MBA graduate, now relationship manager with the public sector’s Leadership Development Centre, says it’s important for New Zealand to have highly rated MBA programmes to demonstrate it’s at the cutting edge of business thinking. “MBAs have simply been seen as an education thing in the past rather than a magnet for talent. But if the focus was really to change, it would help drive expectations among applicants and eventual employers.” This would then drive the content of our MBA programmes, ensuring they were better designed to attract and foster the talent New Zealand needs, he says. Subjects like sales, project management, entrepreneurship, business improvement and productivity would become core, rather than electives graduates can opt for as they are currently.
The most pressing problem, however, in using MBAs as a way to drive talent retention in New Zealand is more basic, says Scottish-born Lafferty, with New Zealanders and New Zealand employers not rating MBAs as highly as most other countries. “I don’t really understand why, but certainly an MBA in New Zealand doesn’t get the recognition that it gets elsewhere.”
Which takes us back to the question posed to Otago MBA graduates about who the real customer of an MBA programme is, says Lafferty, because that is inextricably entwined with attracting and retaining MBA talent for New Zealand’s future.
There are a lot of countries vying to attract talent, says McGuinness. “So if you’re in the game, you’ve got to work hard at it. You can’t just sit back and hope it will happen.”
Fundamentally, says Callaghan, intelligent, creative people have a choice where they live in the world. “But imagine what we could achieve if we built a strategy around that ... gearing our education system accordingly. One hundred inspired New Zealand entrepreneurs can turn this country around. “This is the challenge for us all."
The big questions:
We need 100 more successful entrepreneurs to transform New Zealand’s economy. Could MBAs be the key to attracting and retaining talent we need? These questions were posed at a recent Otago MBA alumni function. Tell us what you think by leaving a comment.
What’s the purpose of an MBA?
Consider who are the customers of an MBA?
What should be in an MBA?
Do MBAs need to be owned by our university business schools?

Middle management
This line sums it up best - "MBAs are also a good way to boost talent levels among our middle and senior management". MBA students should come from, and then go back to, big corporates.
Don't know why some posters are confusing an MBA for some sort of training for entrepeneurship. The worst thing an MBA graduate can do is think they can work for a new venture. The two are completely incompatible.
Posted by Jimmi at 10:40 on December 15, 2011
This line sums it up best - "MBAs are also a good way to boost talent levels among our middle and senior management". MBA students should come from, and then go back to, big corporates.
Don't know why some posters are confusing an MBA for some sort of training for entrepeneurship. The worst thing an MBA graduate can do is think they can work for a new venture. The two are completely incompatible.
Posted by Jimmi at 10:40 on December 15, 2011
Talent and MBA in the same sentence?
"two words combined which can't make sense" as Dave Mustaine said...
Seriously, to gain an MBA you need one thing, and one thing only. Shitloads of money.
Using the word Talent in the same sentence as MBA implies creativity, or natural skill in some particular area. As you mentioned in the article, "accountancy, law and marketing 101" is all you get from an MBA.
The REAL talent behind successful businesses does not sit in the boardroom or the plush corner office, it's out in the office working it's arse off for a fraction of what the fat cats on the board and in the executive wing are earning. We need to prevent people like THAT from leaving the country, not the talentless MBAs.
Posted by Anonymous at 02:57 on December 6, 2011
"two words combined which can't make sense" as Dave Mustaine said...
Seriously, to gain an MBA you need one thing, and one thing only. Shitloads of money.
Using the word Talent in the same sentence as MBA implies creativity, or natural skill in some particular area. As you mentioned in the article, "accountancy, law and marketing 101" is all you get from an MBA.
The REAL talent behind successful businesses does not sit in the boardroom or the plush corner office, it's out in the office working it's arse off for a fraction of what the fat cats on the board and in the executive wing are earning. We need to prevent people like THAT from leaving the country, not the talentless MBAs.
Posted by Anonymous at 02:57 on December 6, 2011
it is what it was
oh YEAH IM A BRIT TOO / was.... just laughable is what it was ...
Posted by Anonymous at 05:36 on November 8, 2011
oh YEAH IM A BRIT TOO / was.... just laughable is what it was ...
Posted by Anonymous at 05:36 on November 8, 2011
mba
Hmmm One MBA is not the same as another albeit in "named" approval .
It used to empower arcane & insightful knowlege spoken of in murmurs.
The ability to do new & fanciful things , to break out of the status quo of Business acumen thus gaining new ground .
Its losing its mystique but always needed practical experience .I wouldnt go so far as to say its not advanced .Hopefully it still tries todo that else it has lost its way !
Posted by Anonymous at 04:33 on November 8, 2011
Hmmm One MBA is not the same as another albeit in "named" approval .
It used to empower arcane & insightful knowlege spoken of in murmurs.
The ability to do new & fanciful things , to break out of the status quo of Business acumen thus gaining new ground .
Its losing its mystique but always needed practical experience .I wouldnt go so far as to say its not advanced .Hopefully it still tries todo that else it has lost its way !
Posted by Anonymous at 04:33 on November 8, 2011
were learning
Weve come along way ................................................
The story goes : "When i was outta stateside coming back home way back in the 70's no one even knew what a F%& MBA was here , let alone respect it ..mind you NZ didnt even have colour TV or microwave ovens either .Partly it was the disrespectiful Brit system too not willing to work with proven Yankee Know how or youth !
Go figure.......
Posted by Anonymous at 04:12 on November 8, 2011
Weve come along way ................................................
The story goes : "When i was outta stateside coming back home way back in the 70's no one even knew what a F%& MBA was here , let alone respect it ..mind you NZ didnt even have colour TV or microwave ovens either .Partly it was the disrespectiful Brit system too not willing to work with proven Yankee Know how or youth !
Go figure.......
Posted by Anonymous at 04:12 on November 8, 2011
MBA
I thought the 2nd sentence was fantastic! 'The budding chief executives and entrepreneurs who fork out the best part of $30,000 to be drilled in accountancy, law and marketing 101?'
That is exactly right. MBA's cover these for the lowest common denominator (ie people who haven't studied business before) and are not sufficiently advanced. Most of the papers are under-grad level. They are theory based, with that gap between academic and business as mentioned above. They don't give enough hard skills in what employers are looking for, apart from imparting the opinion that 'I am great, I have an MBA, give me the bosses job'.
Of the people who I know who finished their MBA, many are back at their old profession/same company/same level of job. I know many people who have got good jobs, but these are the star people with ability regardless of their MBA (although their MBA no doubt helped get their foot in the door and their jobs).
Agree with above - MBA's are about being an entreprenuer.
Posted by Anonymous at 03:47 on October 28, 2011
I thought the 2nd sentence was fantastic! 'The budding chief executives and entrepreneurs who fork out the best part of $30,000 to be drilled in accountancy, law and marketing 101?'
That is exactly right. MBA's cover these for the lowest common denominator (ie people who haven't studied business before) and are not sufficiently advanced. Most of the papers are under-grad level. They are theory based, with that gap between academic and business as mentioned above. They don't give enough hard skills in what employers are looking for, apart from imparting the opinion that 'I am great, I have an MBA, give me the bosses job'.
Of the people who I know who finished their MBA, many are back at their old profession/same company/same level of job. I know many people who have got good jobs, but these are the star people with ability regardless of their MBA (although their MBA no doubt helped get their foot in the door and their jobs).
Agree with above - MBA's are about being an entreprenuer.
Posted by Anonymous at 03:47 on October 28, 2011
Gap between Academics and Business
Great article! Thanks
I am about to finish my MBA programme and started thinking where I can be valued best? It's a shame that being a NZ citizen and having sound work experience locally, New Zealand is my last priority, unless I am starting my own business here. The gap in academics and the business world needs to reduced so businesses can see MBA's as their potential assets.
By giving opportunities to MBA professionals, businesses can create an intrapreneurial culture which could of course take the business to the greater heights.
Sorry, I don't see any direct relationship between an MBA programme and Entrepreneurialism. However the talent and skillset an MBA collects throughout his/her study phase can guaranteed be of greater value at workplace.
NZ institutes offering MBA prorgammes are doing good, but as said, the gap between Academics and Businesses should somehow be reduced.
Posted by Syed at 09:59 on October 21, 2011
Great article! Thanks
I am about to finish my MBA programme and started thinking where I can be valued best? It's a shame that being a NZ citizen and having sound work experience locally, New Zealand is my last priority, unless I am starting my own business here. The gap in academics and the business world needs to reduced so businesses can see MBA's as their potential assets.
By giving opportunities to MBA professionals, businesses can create an intrapreneurial culture which could of course take the business to the greater heights.
Sorry, I don't see any direct relationship between an MBA programme and Entrepreneurialism. However the talent and skillset an MBA collects throughout his/her study phase can guaranteed be of greater value at workplace.
NZ institutes offering MBA prorgammes are doing good, but as said, the gap between Academics and Businesses should somehow be reduced.
Posted by Syed at 09:59 on October 21, 2011
Gap between Academics and Business
Hi Syed, according to Student Job Search CEO the Gap between students, academia and employers is substantial. All three stakeholders need to merge together to form a new approach which means listen to the concerns of each SH. NZ current unemployment rate for students is 19.4% highest in 20years. Certain employers need to embrace new entrepreneurs rather than treat them as threats under new competition (Porters 5f) Academia needs to stop placing emphasis on grades as this no longer guarantees students jobs (intro only) and needs to prepare them for actual job ready roles. Finally students - need to take matters into their own hands and find solutions which are not always at academic providers ... if you get the chance to talk to employers, business owners or HR dept in social environments pick their brains ask them what they want. Good luck to everyone.
Posted by Daniel Hunt at 10:31 on October 21, 2011
Hi Syed, according to Student Job Search CEO the Gap between students, academia and employers is substantial. All three stakeholders need to merge together to form a new approach which means listen to the concerns of each SH. NZ current unemployment rate for students is 19.4% highest in 20years. Certain employers need to embrace new entrepreneurs rather than treat them as threats under new competition (Porters 5f) Academia needs to stop placing emphasis on grades as this no longer guarantees students jobs (intro only) and needs to prepare them for actual job ready roles. Finally students - need to take matters into their own hands and find solutions which are not always at academic providers ... if you get the chance to talk to employers, business owners or HR dept in social environments pick their brains ask them what they want. Good luck to everyone.
Posted by Daniel Hunt at 10:31 on October 21, 2011
I am an MBA student and I am not staying here after I graduate
Agree with the previous commentator that smart people and tall poppies are not exactly welcomed in NZ.
Posted by Anonymous at 19:39 on October 19, 2011
Agree with the previous commentator that smart people and tall poppies are not exactly welcomed in NZ.
Posted by Anonymous at 19:39 on October 19, 2011
MBA's
1. In my opinion an MBA is not about entrepreneurship but rather about management. Good entrepreneurs often do MBA's and become more successful, but, MBA graduates don't necessarily make good entrepreneurs... good managers maybe. So we need to define exactly how success is measured.
2. Many of our biggest and best businesses are overseas owned. Consequently many of our brightest are shifted overseas by their employers because that is where their talents are best used.
3. Smaller NZ owned businesses don't have the experience to acknowledge the benefits of an MBA graduate and therefore cannot see the value. As it is many Kiwi's look at salaries in excess of $100k pa and believe those sorts of incomes are excessive.
4. Investors are not keen in putting cash into new business's... hell... most investors still seem more comfortable in buying property than something productive and exciting.
I think we need a cultural change that celebrates success and high incomes. Until then why would an MBA graduate stay in NZ when there are so many better offerings elsewhere.
Posted by Chris at 11:00 on October 18, 2011
1. In my opinion an MBA is not about entrepreneurship but rather about management. Good entrepreneurs often do MBA's and become more successful, but, MBA graduates don't necessarily make good entrepreneurs... good managers maybe. So we need to define exactly how success is measured.
2. Many of our biggest and best businesses are overseas owned. Consequently many of our brightest are shifted overseas by their employers because that is where their talents are best used.
3. Smaller NZ owned businesses don't have the experience to acknowledge the benefits of an MBA graduate and therefore cannot see the value. As it is many Kiwi's look at salaries in excess of $100k pa and believe those sorts of incomes are excessive.
4. Investors are not keen in putting cash into new business's... hell... most investors still seem more comfortable in buying property than something productive and exciting.
I think we need a cultural change that celebrates success and high incomes. Until then why would an MBA graduate stay in NZ when there are so many better offerings elsewhere.
Posted by Chris at 11:00 on October 18, 2011



















